NC Senate overrides veto of GOP-backed bill to strip power from governor, approves new state constitutional amendments
Senator Berger is recognized for emotion
Thank you Mr President
The journal of November 2020 24 has been examined is
found to be correct
I move that we dispense with the reading of the
journal and that it stand approved is written without objection
The journal for November 20th 2024 stands approved as written
A leave of absence is requested and without objection is
granted for Senator Hunt
Senator Heist is recognized to announce the escort committee for
the seating of the honorable Dana Jones
Thank you Mr President
The following members have been appointed to escort the honorable
Dana Jones into the chamber
Senator Barnes Senator Blue Senator Gailey Senator Lowe and Senator
Paul Newton
Members of the escort committee may proceed to the doors
to e to escort the honorable Dana Jones to the
will of the chamber
sergeant at arms will open the chamber doors and all
members and guests will please stand
The reading clerk will now read the proclamation from the
governor appointing Dana Jones to the fit to fill the
unexpired term of Senator Joyce
The appointment of Dana Connell Jones 2023 2024 by the
governor of the state of North Carolina a proclamation
Whereas Senator Joyce Kravet elected senator from the State Senate
district 31 2023 2024 General Assembly resigned on November 21st
2024
And whereas the provisions of North Carolina General statute 1
63-11 require that the vacancy created by the resignation of
Senator Joyce Krovi be filled by appointment of the person
recommended by the executive committee of the Republican Party for
State Senate district 31
And whereas the State Senate district 31 committee of the
Republican Party has notified me that its members recommended Dana
Carnal Jones of Forsyth County North Carolina to fill the
un expired term
I do by these presidents appoint Dana Connell Jones as
a member of the North Carolina Senate 2023 2024 General
Assembly in witness thereof
I have Hereunto signed my name and affixed the great
seal of the state of North Carolina as a capital
in the city of Raleigh this 25th day of November
in the year of our Lord 2024 and of the
independence of the United States of America the 248 sign
Governor Roy Cooper
Senator Jones received the oath of office on November 29th
2024
Welcome to the Senate and thank you for your willingness
to serve the people of North Carolina
Senator Jones thank you for being here
Uh the committee may now escort Senator Jones to seat
number eight
The house would be so notified
Thank you
The chair is happy to extend courtesies to the family
of Senator Dana Jones her husband David Jones her son
Eli Jones and her parents David and Charlene Caudel
You all would please stand and be recognized
Thank you for being here
We have uh one other courtesy of the gallery here
Uh upon the motion of Senator Me Mary Willis Wills
Bodi of Granville County
The chair is happy to extend courtesies to her parents
Uh Johnnie and Lucy Bodi and her fiance uh Landon
Zimmer
We all stand and be recognized please Senator Murdoch for
what purpose do you rise to Um welcome um through
senatorial statement
Um The five Beta chapter of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity
Incorporated um that is visiting here in Durham
They were chartered on December 15th 1924
Whereas Beta Phi since its inception has stood as a
pillar of ex excellence in the Durham community and throughout
North Carolina
Whereas Beta Phi has a long history of nurturing leaders
in business education politics advocacy entrepreneurship and faith communities
And whereas Beta Phi has been fundamental in supporting and
uplifting Durham through community engagement mentorship programs and service projects
while fostering a culture of scholarship perseverance and integrity
Whereas Beta Phi encourages their members to be civic minded
and supports them as they grow into strong successful and
beloved members of their community
Whereas the Beta Phi Chapter of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity
Incorporated has reached an incredible milestone for the life of
their organization
Celebrating 100 years in Durham
Please
Or do you wanna take it from here Absolutely
Uh Beta Phi will you please stand and be recognized
please We welcome you to the gallery
Thank you for being here
Reports of standing committees Mr Ren uh send for the
uh committee report
Please
Clerk will read
Senator Raban submits the following with recommendations as to passage
house joint resolution 151 term limits for Congress favorable
veto message from the governor
The clerk will read
Governor Roy Cooper objections and veto message Senate Bill 382
an act to make modifications to and provide additional appropriations
for the disaster recovery to make technical clarifying and other
modifications to the current operations Appropriations Act of 2023 and
to make various changes to the law
This legislation is a sham
It does not send money to Western North Carolina but
merely shuffles money from one fund to another in Raleigh
This legislation was titled disaster relief but instead violates the
constitution by taking appointments away from the next governor for
the board of elections Utilities Commissions and Commander of the
North Carolina Highway Patrol letting political parties choose appellate judges
and interfering with the attorney general's ability to advocate for
lower electrical bills for consumers instead of giving small business
grants to disaster counties
It strikes a cruel blow by blocking the extension of
better unemployment benefits for people who have lost jobs because
of natural disasters
Finally it plays politics by taking away two judges elected
by the people and adding two judges appointed by the
legislature taking away authority from the lieutenant governor and the
superintendent of public instruction
And more therefore I veto the bill Roy Cooper Governor
The bill having been vetoed is returned to the Clerk
of North Carolina Senate on this 26th day of November
2024 at 10:27 a.m. for reconsideration by that body
Mr President Senator Rean for what purpose do you write
Awesome
folks
This is not a football game or a concert
The applause will not be tolerated
You're welcome to be in here but we need silence
Thank you Mr President uh motions please
You have the floor for your motion
Thank you Mr President
Move the following bills be added to today's floor calendar
to appear in the following order
Senate Bill 381 disaster relief three budget variation of various
law changes
Senate Bill 921 constitutional amendment require photo ID for all
voters
Senate Bill 920 constitutional amendment income tax cap modification house
joint resolution 151 term limits for Congress
Thank you Mr President without objection
So ordered introduction of bills Clark will read Senate Bill
920 A bill to be entitled an act to amend
the North Carolina Constitution to provide that the maximum tax
rate on incomes cannot exceed 5% introduced by senators Berger
Raaban Paul Newton
Senate bill 921 a bill to be entitled an act
to amend the North Carolina Constitution to require all voters
to present photographic identification before voting
Not just those presenting rep presenting to vote in person
introduced by senators Heist Daniel Paul Newton
We are on to our calendar
Um Senate bill 382
The clerk will read Senate Bill 382 disaster relief three
budget various law changes Senator Heist is recognized
Thank you Mr President members of the Senate uh Senate
Bill 382 was one of the last bills we take
took up the last time we were here
So I'm not sure
Uh there's a lot left in the discussion of the
contents of the bill
It deals with disaster relief
Uh It deals with some changes and technical amendments to
our budget and it makes some uh various policy and
law changes uh particularly restructuring the executive branch of the
government
Um members
I continue to ask for your support for this bill
Uh Despite the uh uh spicy language the governor tried
to throw in his little veto message
Uh That's coming in
This is a good policy for the State of North
Carolina
And with that Mr President I move that Senate bill
382 disaster relief three slash budget slash very law chain
Various law changes become law notwithstanding the objections of the
governor
It's very discussion or debate
hearing on the motion before the body is that the
Senate is that Senate Bill 382 become law notwithstanding the
objections of the Governor
Mr President
So he disruptive and out of order to the legislative
process she's been removed
Clear the gallery just clear the gallery
Everybody's gotta go everybody's gotta go clear the gallery not
gonna be tolerated
Mr President
You can't clear the whole gallery
A lot of the people here are being respectful and
here to see what's happening
This is the People's House should not clear the whole
gallery undemocratic
Mr President
I move that we stand in recess for 10 minutes
We're in recess for 10 minutes
You turn that on
OK
Yeah
What's that Legislations when persons don't have the ID they
were able to vote provisionally or do you understand that
Or and then they were able uh the board of
the election has a process by which it verifies if
that's the person or not or is that not your
understanding State law allows exceptions at the current time
This doesn't change that
This just um coincides the constitution with state law that
requires a voter ID for all forms of voting
So so you're saying this doesn't change the fact that
if the person doesn't have an ID they're able to
vote provisionally and then the board of election has time
to follow up to make sure that is the individual
That's right
This just conforms the constitution to current state law
And we're not in the the language in the in
the constitution that says that voter id laws may contain
exceptions is not being changed
any further discussion or debate
He ain't no the question
Oh I'm sorry Senator Grafstein what bars you at a
question for the bill sponsor if he's willing Thank you
Senator Daniel
Just really briefly to follow up on Senator Robinson
A lot of voters with disabilities don't have a photo
ID
And so the concern I think would be along the
same lines that Senator Robinson was bringing up
Some folks are able to use that exception form in
order to vote
And the question is does this open up the possibility
that those people could be precluded from voting if we
change state law to preclude them from voting without an
ID I think the answer to that is no this
doesn't change anything regarding exceptions
The constitution will still say that voter ID laws may
contain exceptions
And so it would be a separate bill
Is your point I'm sorry
11 follow up question Mr President go ahead
Right
You had you said earlier that the this would require
an ID for every kind of ballot including provisional
And I think that's what set off the questions
And so we wanna make sure I think um that
we're not disenfranchising folks who need to use one of
those exceptions in order to vote
And I guess it's more of a comment than a
question
So thank you
further discussion or debate
Anyone
hearing none
The question before the Senate is the passage of Senate
bill 921 on its second reading all in favor will
vote
I all opposed will vote
No five seconds will be allowed for voting and the
clerk will record the vote
30
Haven't voted in the affirmative 19 in the negative
Uh Senate Bill
921 passes a second reading and without objection will be
read a third time
The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts
Is there further discussion or debate hearing none all in
favor of the passage of Senate Bill 921 on his
third reading will vote
I will vote
I all the polls will vote
No five seconds will be allowed for voting and the
clerk will record the vote
30
Haven't voted in the affirmative 19 or I'm sorry
16
Senator Choudhury is no
Senator Lowe is no
Senator Waddell is no 30
Haven't voted in the affirmative 19 in the negative
Uh Senate Bill 921 passes its third reading and will
be sent to the house next on the calendar
Senate bill 920 clerk will read Senate Bill 920 constitutional
amendment income tax rate cap modification
Senator Newton is recognized
Thank you mister president members
This may be the absolute simplest constitutional amendment you'll ever
see
It simply takes the maximum personal income tax rate from
7% to 5%
So it's very simple very straightforward
But I thought that it's so important that I need
to give it some background and some context to fully
understand why this is so important
Since about 2010 the GOP has stepped into the the
control of the North Carolina legislature
What they came to was a democratically controlled previously democratically
controlled body that had about almost an 8% income tax
rate on North Carolinians and a $1.7 billion deficit in
the budget
So uh the uh gops set up to reform tax
policy
We move the personal income tax from a sliding scale
to a flat tax
We greatly reduce the personal income tax rate which currently
stands at 4.5%
The personal income tax rate again nearly 8% in 2010
4.5% today and scheduled to be reduced further
We're also on track to eliminate the corporate income tax
These tax reforms have done wonders for our state
Every time we reduce the income tax rate we hear
a hue and cry of you're taking availability away from
the state that could be money that could be used
for other things
The reality is as we've reduced taxes we have uh
increased the revenues of this state in 2010
The budget was about 20 billion
Now it's about 30 billion 8% tax rate
4.5% tax
Rate
So the old saw if you will that this is
devastating to uh the financial needs of our state to
continue to reduce taxes is flat wrong
And the other thing that's really really important for us
to keep in mind this is not our money
We're talking about taxpayer money
We're talking about the money North Carolinians work to earn
So they should have a right to decide the maximum
that they're gonna be taxed by us government
And I think it is irrefutable that government tends toward
spending spending and more spending
So all we're doing with this bill is recognizing the
reality that government has a tendency to grow
Therefore we have this opportunity with a tax rate that's
currently 4.5% to simply give North Carolinians the option of
saying you know what uh the most you can tax
me is seven percent today
I think going to 5% makes sense
It's their money
They should choose what the maximum tax rate is for
them in North Carolina
It's as simple as that
So all we're asking today with your vote is to
allow North Carolinians to choose for themselves the maximum tax
rate that they will be taxed here in North Carolina
and that would be 5%
So I appreciate it
Ask you for your support on this bill
Further discussion or debate Senator Meyer
For what purpose do you rise Thank you Mr President
I like to debate the bill
You have the floor
Thank you
Uh Senator Newton referenced an old saw but I want
to tell you that we have been very fortunate over
the last 10 years to take advantage of a strong
economy and large population growth that has kept this state
afloat
Not to mention the federal funding during COVID
I'm not concerned about any old saws but I am
concerned about the buzz saw that is about to hit
this state
If you look at fiscal projections of where we're going
these fiscal projections are not just a warning about capacity
Let's look at what's actually happened
We went into this biennium with $4.849 billion in reserves
which are now down to 116 million
That means we've spent $4.77 million billion dollars $4.77 billion
that we did not collect in revenue and we will
not be able to make up in the next two
years
We are heading into a position where we see that
in the October revenue from the controller compared to last
year we are already down 7.4% from last year
We are at a place where we have a 25%
vacancy rate among state employees
Our health plan is running in the red and we've
warned you about all these things previously
We couldn't have possibly warned you about hurricane Helene and
how much it will cost including as we discussed in
our last session probably more than half of our existing
additional reserves
This is all before the remaining tax cuts that have
already been put into law go into effect which will
further restrict our revenues
And we've seen projections that in as soon as four
years will be at a structural deficit point
But all of that may come true sooner rather than
later
If these numbers that I read to you just continue
to be the pattern
So what's the impact What's the impact here on real
people How do they end up paying for the services
that they deserve from government The impact is already being
seen as true
Over the last two years 96 counties have raised property
taxes because we are shifting the tax burden from taxes
that are paid in corporate and individual income taxes to
counties having to pay for services which they can only
do primarily do with the use of the ad valorem
tax
96 counties raising property taxes in 2024 there were 17
counties that raised property taxes more than 10%
Imagine what counties in western North Carolina with very low
yield on ad valorem tax increases will have to do
if they have to pay for the recovery based on
their property taxes rather than help from the state of
North Carolina
We can have all the debate you want on policy
around taxation but putting this into the constitution is putting
a cap on that should concern all of us in
our good conscience about what is responsible for the future
of this state
But we know what will happen here is that even
folks who do understand how bad this is of fiscal
planning will likely vote with their caucus rather than their
conscience
We should not be dooming the people of North Carolina
to live in a state that cannot meet their basic
needs by taking action like this
No matter how popular something is it doesn't mean that
it has to be right to put into the constitution
I truly cannot imagine a policy that will be more
damaging
If we start to run out of money then limiting
our ability to take care of our people
I encourage you to vote
No on this amendment
certainly
Thank you Mr President
I rise to debate the bill
You have the floor
that is almost verbatim
The same saw that we heard when we removed when
we lowered we gave the public the opportunity to lower
the maximum income tax rate from 10% to 7%
Doomsday didn't happen
Revenues grew options
Uh are there for the state to spend money in
a fiscally prudent way that helps people the most
So I implore you uh let the process work
Um Let's let the people decide how much they want
to be taxed by the State of North Carolina
And by the way I think it's um I think
it is unfair to North Carolinians to say oh we
were just the beneficiary of a good economy
The reality is we are uniquely benefited because of our
tax and regulatory policy in this state
And I'll just give you one of many many examples
Toyota came to our state with about a $1.2 billion
investment
They now have that
They liked what they saw and it's now $13.9 billion
of investment in Liberty North Carolina because of what we
have done since 2010 to make this a great state
for any company to come put iron in the ground
to make capital investment that they know that they know
will still be useful and beneficial to them for not
five years but 20 years 50 years maybe even 100
years that our tax policy is a big reason why
people are fleeing states like California with which you might
agree with their their tax policy Senator Mayer
I do not but they're coming here
They're migrating here because they do not want to be
taxed into oblivion and they'd rather work themselves to keep
their money
And by the way there's nothing more stimulative to North
Carolina's economy than for a taxpayer to keep his or
her dollar and spend it when and however they see
fit
Thank you Mr President Senator Mark Mr President
I'd like to debate the bill a second time on
the floor
Senator Newton directly
I understand that you have authored much of the tax
policy that has us where we are today
And I truly believe that your tax policy is going
to make it incredibly difficult for us to bounce back
from hurricane Helene and every climate related natural disaster that
continues to come
And the impact here that you emphasize results in recruiting
businesses is something we can all get behind but none
of us should stand behind shifts in the tax policy
that inevitably harm poor people the most and make it
more difficult for people to keep their homes
any further discussion or debate
Hearing none
The question before the Senate is the passage of Senate
bill 921 on its second reading all in favor will
vote aye all opposed will vote
No five seconds will be allowed for voting and the
clerk will record record the vote
30 having voted in the affirmative 19 and negative Senate
Bill 921 passes its second reading and will without objection
will be read a third time
The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts
Senate Bill 921
Correct
Oh I'm sorry you're right
920
Excuse me
Senate Bill 920 will be read a second time
She said um any further discussion or debate
hearing on all in favor of the passage of Senate
bill 920 on its third reading will vote
A all the polls will vote
No five seconds will be allowed for voting and the
clerk will record the vote
Senator Choudhury and Senator Lowe are both no 30 having
voted in the affirmative 19 in the negative Senate bill
920 passes its third reading and will be sent to
the house
Finally on our calendar we have house joint resolution 151
Clark will read house joint resolution 151 term limits for
Congress
Sir Johnson has the floor
Thank you Mr President members
Um Just a brief information about this resolution eight states
have passed this single issue resolution
Uh 34 states are actually required for a convention to
be called
Uh as history has proven a convention is very highly
unlike unlikely to occur
Just as with the situation of amendment
1721 and 22 of the US Constitution a number of
states uh as the states that had signed on to
this approached the 34 required um to hold the convention
Congress actually has taken action to address the concerns of
the states
They ultimately would want Congress would ultimately want to have
control over the amendment so they end up fixing it
themselves
Um lifelong career politicians lead to gridlock of what we
see in DC today
So with this resolution North Carolina would join the other
uh eight states to do our part to address issues
in DC
Um I know we don't run uh legislation or amendments
or resolutions based on polling but I did find the
most recent poll just for your consideration
Uh This poll was ran in November of this year
by Rasmusson uh of of the term limit amendment
Excuse me
The yeah the term limit uh constitutional amendment 74% of
Republicans support it
78% of unaffiliated and 83% of Democrats support this uh
would stand for any question
Would appreciate your support
Go Meyer
For what purpose you asked Thank you Mr President
I'd like to debate the resolution
You have the floor
Ladies and gentlemen let's be clear
You are opening the doors to a constitutional convention
This is an insane idea
I will vote against it
But if it happens I will work my butt off
to be one of the delegates to that constitution
And if you think this is a good idea that
should scare the heck out of you
Is there any further discussion or debate Hearing none The
question before the Senate is the passage of house joint
resolution 151 on the second reading all in favor will
vote
I all opposed will vote
No five seconds will be allowed for voting and the
clerk will record the vote
You understand 28 having voted in the affirmative 21 in
the negative Senate joint or House joint resolution 151 passes
a second reading without objection will be read a third
time
The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts
Is there further discussion or debate
here and on all in favor of the passage of
house joint resolution 151 on his third reading will vote
a all opposed will vote
No five seconds will be allowed for voting and the
clerk will record the vote
Senator Choudhury is no I'm sorry
28 haven't voted in the affirmative
21 have been voted in the negative house joint resolution
151 passes its third reading and will be enrolled